My Turn

For nearly 10 years now, I've answered every e-mail that asked "what are the Boomer years?" I actually got so annoyed with the question, I put the answer in the masthead.

Now it's my turn. What years comprise the Generation X (Gen-X)?

Finally, what characteristics are common to the generation? Inquiring Boomer minds want to know.

Originally posted by Pete at February 22, 2003 01:09 PM

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I was born in 1964. When I was growing up, references in the media to the Baby Boomers never extended to 1964. Now thirty something years later, suddenly the Baby Boom generation has been revised and everyone quotes 1946 to 1964 as established fact. Has anyone looked at the statistics because the way we are retroactively defining baby boom is not the way I heard about it growing up. Before the term "Gen X" was created (a derisive term at that), 1963 and 1964 birthdates were excluded explicitly from the Baby boom definition. Obviously its a meaningless designation.

Pam: I, too, was born in 1980. We're "Carter Babies"; babies born under the Carter Administration. Generation Y, Millennials, whatever you want to call them, were born under Reagan and through the end of Clinton's second term (1981-2000). Joe X is right: birthrates did not really pick up until Reagan took office. Remember, the contraceptive-cokehead-disco-party-days didn't end until the early 80's. (no offense to you Boomers who liked disco.) ;-)

Things that separate late-wave Xers from first-wave Yers:

1. There were no minivans (we rode around in station wagons)
2. No Baby-On-Board decals
3. No camcorder taping our lives since birth
4. We were teenagers before the Internet became popular (although, you remember dialing into BBS' and 'gophering' instead of browsing)
5. You remember life before personal computers, because your family didn't even own one until the late 80's or early 90's (and your teachers would ask if you had a computer at home)
6. You were a teenager when grunge was popular in the early 90's
7. You didn't have a cell phone in high school (and thought the idea of one was lame)

Those are just a few examples. I noticed, just before I graduated in 98, that kids just a year or two below us seniors were a different breed. Just completely different; they had cell phones, cared about fashion, seemed less drug-prone, etc. I can't explain it; all I know is, I'm not one of them.

I am responding to a post by Brendan. I agree with all of those things that you said. Although most of the research I've done tells me that I am a part of Gen Y (I was born in 1978, by the way), I can honestly say that I had almost nothing in common with people who were just a few years younger than me. I mean, I didn't get a cell phone until I was in college and my parents still thought it to be absurd.

Anyway, I am glad to see that I am not the only one who feels this way! Great post.

I'm currently working on a paper about generations. I know, pointless, but I'll point you all to the link when it's complete (nearly complete now). What guys like Strauss and Howe (authors of "Generations" and "Millennials Rising") call a generation is actually an archetype. Their problem is, they don't distinguish the two.

An archetype is a group of generations bound together by common events. Folks born between 1965 and 1981 are in the 'Nomad' archetype, or Wanderers. the Nomad archetype actually consists of two distinct generations: X and Y. Generation Y isn't what the media thinks it is, it's those born between 1975 and 1981, the "Seven Year Itch" as I call it in my paper. Generation X are those born between 1965 and 1974; a perfect ten-year generation. There are many things which separate the two, but we're both in the same Nomad archetype. Also, birthrates are a myth; the "Baby Bust" didn't end until 1989, according to the US Census (when birthrates again hit 4 million per year.)

A few things which separate Millennials from Gen Y (us) are:

Baby On Board signs: 1982
Morning In America: 1982
Invention of Minivan: 1983
High school graduation: 2000 and beyond (Yers graduated 1999 and prior)

Those I mentioned above and in the prior post are just a few things which separate the Nomad archetype from the Artist archetype, which the Millennials belong to (the second generation in the Artist archetype would be your "New Silents" or "Generation Z", born 1991-2000.)

Of course, all of this adheres to a ten-year generation theory, instead of the traditional 18-21 year theory. Generation Y is the exception, at seven years. This includes an interesting new cohort derrived by late Boomers, which they call "Generation Jones", or those born between 1955 and 1964 (http://generationjones.com puts it as 1954 to 1965; too long, in my opinion.)

Oops, one mistake: Millennials and New Silents are the 'Hero' archetype (Artist is after Hero). :-)

Going back to Jewell's comment, the labor shortage we anticipate as the boomers approach traditional retirement age is only a guess and a part of a huge effect that boomers have been having throughout their life stages.

I say it is a guess because although we are approaching retirement age, most of us are in no way prepared financially to retire. Many others who may draw some kind of annuity benefit have no intention of kicking back and handing over the reigns.

Just as the population bulge drove an increase in consumption over the past several years, it may drive a boom in new business starts, mostly in services, late in this decade.

If medical advances continue to accelerate as they have been doing, we may find ourselves economically productive well into our 70s and even 80s.

I'm not sure enough research has been done on these possible outcomes. If the economic need and better health of boomers does create this kind of extension of careers, what does this do to various aspects of our workforce, business environments and social programs? If this happens we have to confront age discrimination, learn how tasks are approached differently by mature workers than young workers, what workplace changes are needed and how policies need to change to capitalize on this situation.

I am responding to AGM's comments. It drives me crazy that the baby boomers keep moving up the years that define baby boomers to include the oldest Generation Xers. They must do it to make themselves feel younger. They can't be in the age group of 45 - 60 it must really be 37 to 55. I was born in 1968 and my husband was born in 1966. I guarantee that 5 to 10 years from now we will be baby boomers too.

I was born at the end of 1963. I really am a baby boomer, since my dad served in WWII, and my brother was born in 1947. But a few years back I clipped an article about 1963 being "left alone", with baby boomers up to 1962, and Generation X beginning in 1964! It was really funny. I've always felt in the middle. But it's true the dates just keep jumping around. If you put Generation X at 1963-1977 like some sites, I'm right in there with my stepdaughter! Oh well, whatever I am 40 here I come!

Some really good posts on this thread. Born in '64, I've always felt caught in the middle and have "seen it all" so to speak regarding pop culture. Now that I'm a parent, I've fully realized how complicated the world has become compared to my upbringing. Car seats, helmets, constant organized sports/activities, political correctness, this group's demands, that group's demands, agendas in public schools that precede academics. I don't know about life expectency, but I see people getting sicker and cracking up earlier. So damned many rules, micro-management and busy bodies.
I would like to comment on the so-called coming labor shortage theory. At first glance this would seem the case, but with outsourcing and out of control immigration (35mil in the last eight years,compare to 28 mil from 1880-1910!), automation and efficiency of production; coupled with an enormous generation getting screwed out of pensions and retirement while dealing with skyrocketing healthcare and other costs are getting to the point where they just can't retire (take a breath). All these factors are throwing the system out of whack. We will eventually have an imbalance where there are far more people than jobs available. I am not a xenophobe or parochial in thought (see? you can't say what you think without apologizing first), but just making observations like the elephant in the room nobody wants to talk about.

I'm right smack dabb in the middle of Gen-X-1972.
I do believe that Gen-X extends to 1977 rather than 1972 like Coupland stated in his book. I also think that the older the Gen-X the more they'll resemble the Baby Boomers, and the younger the Gen-X the more they'll resemble Gen-Y. I, myself, resemble the Baby Boomer generation more. In my experience people my age and older are the activists in our generation where are the younger Gen-X could care less. Just a thought.

I have always thought that a baby boomer was someone whose father had served in World War 11 and was born between 1946 and 1965. My cousin was born in 1965 and his father served in World War 11.The people who did not have fathers who served in WW11, I would not considered a baby boomer , but people who were born in 1960 and up who had fathers that served in the Korea or Vietnam War I would considered Generation X and Y.

I agree with Joe X because his statistics are right on the money. There was still a boom in births in America in the years 61-64. After that, there was a significant drop, and Gen X began. I was born in '62 and I share many of the same values as the older boomers and I enjoyed the music. I was very young, but I can remember hearing the Beatles, Doors, etc, when they were together and their hits were on the radio. And yet, I could identify with the punk rock movement when that happened and relate to the anger and alienation that was the polar opposite of much of the '60s music. I think it is safe to say the baby boom began in 1946 and ended in 1964. But I would consider the true "sixties generation" as the part of the boomer generation that was old enough to be drafted and sent to Vietnam, since the war was the main galvanizing force of the era. In other words, the "60s generation" was the part of the boomer generation that was born roughly from 1946 to about 1952 or 1953. Those people were the hippies, the Woodstock Nation, counterculture, and so on. Great topic!

I personally think that there is a sharp divide between people born in the mid 70s, up to say, 1977 and those born afterwards. Personally, I was born in 1976 and I am 27. I was chatting with some friends the other week...a few were born within a year of me...the others were born a bit later than that. We were discussing music we grew up listening to. I mentioned that my favorite group growing up was Depeche Mode. Then, this 25 year old friend of mine said with a straight face "Who?". There is only a 2 year difference, ut I felt so much older. It turned out that he (and as he claims, most of the people his own age), didn't really get into pop culture until the MC Hammer-Vanilla Ice-NKOTB era, which essentially was 1990 or so. Never felt such a generation gap as I felt that evening.

I'm a GenX born in late '63. Been suffering under totalitarian boomer rules my whole life. They definitely have been shifting the generation to youthenize themselves. I see that boomers now think they'll get to work until they die (since they couldn't "die before they got old"). It's a theory, and a pretty good one. However, I personally believe they'll be too much of a pain to work with relative to the immigrants (i.e. Diversity) and thus price themselves out of the market. I'd rather have them work, so I don't have to pay for their MedicAid in old-folks homes. Now we have good expensive drug support, to make them feel better while aging.
When will it end?

I am a baby boomer, born in February 1947. I want to make a comment to Nancy. The baby boomers are not moving up the date to make them feel younger! I fully disagree with the dates for baby boomers being born between 1946 to 1964. That is to long!!! I feel baby boomers were born the first five to six years after World War II. That is what seperates us from the rest. It does not include the Korean War or Vietnam. I was married when Vietnam occured. I also feel that only one child, the first child born after the war was a baby boomer - one child per family was a baby boomer. The men had been gone a long time and some even after the war was delayed. Almost all the men went, the only ones left were disabled or to old to go. My mother lived in the country with her mother while dad was gone and she said there was only two men left in the area close to them and they were very old.
Our differences in music, dress, beliefs, cars, or anything else doesn't make the difference. All generations have that, due to change in our living styles and progress.
Would someone tell me how they came up with these silly ideas and dates?
Pat

Okay, I would have to agree with Steffie. I was born in 1978, which would technically be considered as late Gen X. But I don't have anything in common with Gen X. I had no worldly emotions or fashion statements in the 80s, I was too busy playing with toys. I came of age in the mid 90s and opened myself up to a lot events and such through that decade. I listened to gangsta rap music and went to raves...oh and I DID have a cell phone(a huge cell phone). An older gen Xer would not really be into that kind of thing...wouldn't you agree?
I guess I would be labeled an X-Yer. Lately I've been reading a lot about the 1977-1994 Gen Y period and found that to be a little more acurate. Some have other theories and some still believe that Gen X was from 1961-1980. If you look at it, Gen X is a small population compaired to the Boomers and Gen Y. My parents are boomers, so that makes me an "echo bommer" or Gen Y. Boomers are about 65-70 million; Gen X-about 45-50 million; and Gen Y over 70 million, close to 75 million. The birth rate dropped around 1965-66(X) and picked up again after 1976(Y). I believed the 61-80 time line and I always thought I was an Xer up until 1999 when my friend's older friend said I wasn't and Xer. I was really confused for a while, so decided to do some research and find out what I am. I have come to realize that I am a Yer.
Personally though, I think labeling generations and setting dates of birth to catagorize what generation a person's in is ridiculous, so I'll wait and see what else those demographers label me, eh?

It gets even worse than that. Baby boomers (72 million) are also split into 2 groups: core boomers and cuspers. The core boomers were born between 1946 - 1954. Their offspring are Gen X or "echo boomers". The cuspers were born between 1954 - 1964. They are a more youthful, more spirited baby boomer who are now parents of the more youthful market of Gen Y's. Gen X were born between 1965 - 1976 (17 million of them). Many are products of divorced or single parent families. That could be why they tend to marry later in life. They are not willing to sacrifice their personal life for the sake of employment oppts. They think of and treat each other as members of a family. They X'ers vowed that they'd never do what was done to them. They tend to be very family oriented and take their children everywhere. They are also financially savvy. They're willing to take risks, expect to be respected and want to do things on their time and terms. Gen Y's are in tune w/technology (there are 60 million of them). They were born between 1977 - 1994.

I want who's ever job it is making this stuff up. Must be nice.

I agree with "kÜⁿgfÜ_fªñ". I too, was also born in 1978, and to be honest, I don't think that many people my age were really "into" the 80s when they ***actuallY*** occurred (although for some strange reason, they are now in the 00s). Perhaps ***very*** late in the decade we may have started to notice things, but pop culture was in a state of flux at that time (I always considered the 1990 time frame to be a "dead zone" pop-culture wise...except for the Simpsons). Anyway, few of us had any concept of nuclear war back then and we were probably the first cohort to have the internet ready and waiting by the time we became adults (the internet blossomed in 1995, when we were still only 17). Meanwhile, it seems that people just a couple of years older have a different taste of things. Mike from above was a perfetly good example. He was born in '76 yet his friend 2 years younger (presumably born in '78) had totally different pop culture references growing up.

Who else agrees with me that there seems to be a gap between mid and late 70s babies?

Wow...someone agrees with me? Thank you very much :§ Thank's Mark!
You see, we, as the "in between years of '77-'8? believe that We shouldn't be called the Xers...although some of us belive we are. That's what makes us unique. We are everyone and no one. We act young and we act old. Some of us have families of our own, some of us still want to party before 30. We feel that if we don't get the most ot of life now, we will fall out and lose out later. If you're picking up what I'm laying down...then you know that WE are a generational "gap". I'm not just saying US, but every generation gap in the past and even in the future. WE are the ones that set trends more efficiantly. Who knows...a generation gap may have started the bell bottom pants, or even the VW Bug craze. :? WE learn from our predessors' past and work it over to make it either cool for goofy in our perspective for the next generation to come. We make and spend more bling bling (money) than ever before. We sing, dance, perform, entertain. and touch lives to the point that we get dug up from that grave as a cult classic by future up-and-comers. We are the demention between young and old; new and used; in and out; life and death.
This part is more towards US. We started getting culturally advanced. WE see racism as more of a bad movie(Y) than a nightmare(X) and what's worse...a way of life(boomers and war babies) There are so many of us that are bi-racial or mixed in some way(yes me also). We were born in the dawn of personal computer, remote control television, and Atari game consoles. We started using computers in school for typing, educational programs, games, and when we were in our teens, the internet. We used this as a tool for our minds and now it's OUR way of life and our identity. We, in general, look at the current events of our planet as information, not as much horror, sadness, anger, and death. We think of ways to make it better for our future. We are split in two...a mixed stew pot full of different ingredients and flavours to influence the world years from now. We love to make money any way we can, whether a career in corperations or entertainment. I guess that's just my philosophy on us "in-betweeners" of this whole mess.
I felt compelled to go off on this matter because this is the only comment bord I could find and the fact that this is just so facinating yet frustrating topic of interest. :)

Let me know what you think...I'm open to whatever!

Right, Kung Fu Fan...although I personally think that 1977 is still Generation X. I can notice a strong generation gap among people literally months older than me. I can't put a finger on it, but it seems that they relate much more towards the 80s than people my age, and that they don't picture the Internet as a vital to their lives. I may be wrong...I am only sampling a small subset, but for some odd reason, 1977 cohorts seem to be true "children of the 80s", while it seems that people my age didn't wake up until 1989/1990, when the Vanilla Ice/NKOTB/MC Hammer era was underway. I think that 1978/1979 were more of a transition period.

I think the reason there has been so much confusion on where to draw the boundaries between Boomers and Xers is because there are actually three generations during the years traditionally used for these two generations. This is a partly a result of the acceleration of culture, which has led many generational experts to abandon the old 20-or-so-year definition of generations for a defintion these days that is around 10 to 15 years. I believe the correct birth years for these generations is as follows:

Baby Boomers--1942 to 1953
Generation Jones--1954 to 1965
Generation X--1966-1978

I'm seeing the above defintions used more and more frequently now in the literature on generations (although I've seen numerous experts vary a year or two on the edges of these boundaries). But certainly the Generation Jones concept has become more and more commonly used regardless of the exact birth years for each generation.

Maybe, Helen, I buy into the concept that a generation is now defined closer to 10-15 years, but I think most everyone agrees the start of the Baby Boom was clearly defined by returning GI's AFTER WWII. Your definition starting in 1942 doesn't make much sense.

Just for giggles, let's say the Boomer Generation starts in 1945. Using the high end of your shortened generational time frame (15 years) puts Boomers from 1945- 1960.

If we use the more accepted start of 1946, your formula puts Boomers from 1946-1961, which is only 3 years off the current 1946-64 definition.

Pete, I have to respectfully disagree with your assertion that "most everyone agrees the start of the Baby Boom was clearly defined by returning GI's AFTER WWII". If you study current generational thinking, you'll find most generation experts (as opposed to the uninformed, often lazy media) in recent years have redefined the start point of Boomers to the early 1940's. Howe and Strauss (who are perhaps the best known generation experts nationally) start the Boom at 1943, and many other experts start it in 1942, and in some cases even in 1941.

If the generation being defined was the WWII Generation, then it might be relevant what year those soldiers returned from the war. But what possible relevance to defining the Boomers does the return from the war signify?! Similarily, defining a generation by how many kids were born is asinine. No generation before or since the Boomers was defined by this factor of number born. Generations are based on the shared experiences that formed their collective personalities when their members were young. I have seen numerous demographers and generation experts ridicule this foolish old definition of the Baby Boom. The media, incidentally, is guilty for originally creating this myth: actual demographers originally only noted that there was a baby boom, ie. a lot of kids being born starting in the '40s, some members of the media then started referring to this boom in births as a generation, completely misusung the real definition of generation.

If you look at the actual personality traits of the people involved (ie. the real definition of generations), you'll see that there is a collective personality between people born starting in the early 40's. Time Magazine, for example, declared their 1966 Man of the Year as the "The Generation under 25", which would start that generation at 1942. When you look at some of the most famous examples of quintissential Boomers (e.g. Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix, Jimmy Morrison, Abby Hoffman, Jerry Rubin), you see that they were all born well before 1946. And the polling I've seen on this issue shows that people born in the early '40s clearly identify more with being Boomers than being part of the Silent Generation which they've long been mistakenly placed.

And by the way, in your example of starting a 15 year generation in 1946, the birth years would be 1946-1960, not 1961, although I'm not clear what the point of this example is.

We sort of have to look at the aspect of the generational labeling with the population in birth rates. After WWII, more people started having more babies. That Was from 1946 to 1965. Then we look at the "revolution" and Vietnam in the 60s, which cause a decline in about 1966. That went on through to the mid-70s. I agree with Pete. 1942 is an absured theory, being that the birth rate was put on hold for another four years. The same after Vietnam, when we were, again, at peace to have more children. That caused a "repeat" in the generational mix.

I agree with much of what kÜⁿgfÜ_f»ñ mentions, and it seems that there is somewhat of an abrupt difference between those born in the mid-70's vs those born in the late 70's and later. I also think, however, that a lot also depends on just exactly what experiences a person may have had during certain "transitional" periods (both personally and in terms of external events) as to where a person identifies themself. I was born in 1960, and it seems as if people my age and younger began a trend that became much more pronounced as the 1980's progressed in which a growing number of people were taking much longer to get through college than the normal 4 years. The ones who made it through "on time" in teh early eighties probably better identify with those that are a few years older; the ones like me who required two additional years and then continued through the 80's in a "wilderness" of sorts as they pursued graduate studies as well as the beginning of a professional career (which came much later than expected or desired and which the effects of the "delay" is something we're still recovering from) probably much more easily identify with the older members of "gen X" to a certain extent. This possible "arrested development" perhaps explains how I (a dumb white guy to boot) managed to somehow develop an acquired taste for rap music since the middle of the 1980's or so, in spite of my being somewhat "out of (age) range" for such an art form. On the other hand, I sometimes have to wonder if maybe there are more people my age (and race) than are willing to admit that have continued to listen to it, at least in the hopes that the various record labels will finally get the idea that, if they want hip hop to keep from destroying itself (you ought to read the comments Jay-Z made in Time magazine a few weeks ago), they had better start realizing that there is more than a 16-25 yr old age demographic that they should start paying better attention to.

I love this topic, it's so interesting, so here I go.

I was born in 1978, which would technically be considered as late Gen X. But I don't have anything in common with Gen X. I had no worldly emotions or fashion statements in the 80s, I was too busy playing with toys. I came of age in the mid 90s and opened myself up to a lot events and such through that decade. I listened to gangsta rap music and went to raves, and I still do. I started listening to techno music and rap since I was 8. I had an Atari when I was 6 and a Mac computer when I was 10...oh and I DID have a cell phone by high school age(a huge cell phone). An older gen Xer would not really be into that kind of thing...wouldn't you agree?
I guess I would be labeled an X-Yer. Lately I've been reading a lot about the 1977-1994 Gen Y period and found that to be a more acurate. Some have other theories and some still believe that Gen X was from 1961-1980. If you look at it, Gen X is a small population compaired to the Boomers and Gen Y. My parents are boomers, so that makes me an "echo bommer" or Gen Y. Boomers are about 65-70 million; Gen X-about 45-50 million; and Gen Y over 70 million, close to 75 million. The birth rate dropped around 1965-66(X) and picked up again after 1976(Y).
I believed the 61-80 time line and I always thought I was an Xer up until 1999 when my friend's older friend said I wasn't and Xer and that I didn't know how to be an Xer. I was like..."what the hell are you talking about?" I was really confused for a while, so decided to do some research and find out what I am. I'd have to say I agree with the guy, and that I have come to realize that I AM a Yer.
I'm a Yer, and glad to be one. I love my parents, and I have respect for others. I don't whine and complain about live and fully expect to see results. I have a very open mind about the world in more than just positive and negative.
We as '77-'80 babies are stuck in a gap. A gap where we have the option to believe if we're X or Y. That's what makes us unique.interesting.

OOPS...sorry...my last message was posted on the wrong message board.....doh!!!
Disregard, unless you're new and just tuned in. Thanks

§h@ºl!n Mºnk

I'm curious to know how those here, who feel that birth rates are relevant to defining generations, would explain that relevance. I see no relevance whatsoever, and I believe it's true that very few actual experts believe that birth rates are a relevant factor. Of course, variables like birth rates are relevant to issues like determining, for example, future markets (e.g. by noticing that a lot of kids are being born during a certain time would be useful info for a diaper manufacturer). But re. determinig generations, what possible relevance could birth rates have? If we accept that generations are based on shared formative experiences, why would we need to look at how many kids were born? Is it that we should assume that the cultural/political/economic major events that shape a generation happen, by some sort of cosmic coincidence, to exactly fit the years of the ups and downs of birth rate charts?! Why is it that no generation before or since the Boomers was defined by birth rates in any way? Is it that the Baby Boom Generation should be determined by completely different rules than all other generations? Should we go back and look at birth rate charts and change the generational boundaries of other generations? Should we ignore the fact that the Lost Generation was based on a certain cynical and dissilusioned feeling among its members after WWI, and instead define that generation by the random factor of how many kids happened to be born during the early part of 20th Century? Why stop at birth rates? Maybe we should look at how many days it rained, or how many vanilla ice cream cones were sold. As for me, I'd rather just stick with the long-standing, tried and tested, theoretically and statistically proven definition of generations that has been used for many years and for many generations; and see the old definition of Boomers for what it is: a silly media-produced error which over the last few years has been fast losing its credibility as Baby Boomers are finally being defined by the same criteria as all other generations.

Gosh, Helen, so many questions. I give up. I guess my observations as well as my arithmatic skills are flawed once again. You are obviously an expert on this subject, so I'll just accept your logic and (if I may be so bold) jump on your bandwagon.

For starters, I like your assessment of the generational length, so much so, let's re-define the length of a generation to a maximum of say, two to three years. Since we can only use shared formative experiences, it only seems prudent to define them this way:

1942-1944 The "you look like the flat-footed mailman" generation
1945-1946 The "your dad got shot in the ass crossing the Rhine and came home early" generation
1947-1948 The "dad's home and he's healthy" generation
1949-1950 The "your mom was picky" generation
1951-1952 The "you want to try out the bomb shelter, dear" generation
1953-1954 The "when are you going to make us grandparents?" generation
1955-1956 The "You're named Nash because of a car seat" generation

We could further divide each of the new generations into sub-groups defined by the television shows they watched. (Those born prior to the advent of TV can substitute radio where necessary.) For instance, those born after April of 1952 could opt-into a sub-group called "I Love Lucy" but only of their parents let them stay up and watch.

Also, anyone born after 1953, could only qualify as a Baby Boomer by proving "first-born" status. Because as we all know, growing up with an evil sibling changes the experience considerably. It does not however, preclude them from the "Ed Sullivan Show" sub-group of that year. Note: Topo Gigio is NOT a special interest group of the Ed Sullivan sub-group... s'all right?

I am no longer hung up on birth rates, only the reason for birth... which is still a shared experience, but I'm having a hard time separating the concept from the conception.

Pete, I'm sorry that you were so affected by my posts that you felt the need to respond with that level of sarcasm and disrespect. I meant nothing personal against you, nor anyone else; I was posting my comments in the spirit of honest intellectual discourse.

I have long been interested in various generational issues, and this topic of whether the old definition of Baby Boomers is flawed (because it deviates from from the usual definition of generations by being based on birth rates) has come up quite a bit along the way. It is interesting to note that I have seen people respond the way you did more than once--with hostility or anger or sarcasm while not addressing any of the actual issues. I have assumed that this attacking posture is chosen as a way to avoid dealing with the issues, because it would be so difficult to actually defend the old "birth rate" definition of Boomers--it's certainly true that I've never seen anything remotely close to a cogent defense of that now outdated position. How about dropping the sarcasm, and actually trying to answer and discuss the numerous questions and points I raise in the above few posts?

OKay, this may seem typical, but.......can't we all just get along? I mean, yes, this is a very touchy subject to quite a few people, but it is REALLY nothing to get worked over about. It's all just the media trying to make an extra buck because they have nothing else better to do besides sitting around,looking at things in this society that define generations. What music you like, what clothes you wore, how you grew up, your political views, and so on. Like I mentioned earlier, it is all just so rediculous that we have to fight a silly battle that what is already confusing enough in this troubled society we live in. Boomers, Xers, Yers, moe, joe, schmoe, poe,..... We all live and we all die. We all have our beliefs and theories about life. We all have different personalities, no matter WHAT generation we "come" from. I think that this is too aggrivating. Generations, back in the day, were refered to mainly a family affair, not what kind of music people listened to, or what decade they were born. There needs to be a euphamism for "generation" because the word "generation", like the ever so popular and happy word "gay", have been blown waaaaay out of proportion.

Reply to Helen's comments on 12/13.

Great insight! The idea that 78 million people are moving in lockstep through time is should on its face be ludicrous.
Boomer is a term coined by Landon Jones used primarily by marketers. Jones, former managing editor of People magazine, introduced the term in his book, Great Expectations: Americans and the Baby Boom, in 1980 ö when the oldest boomer was 34! In a sense, the boomer generation was ãinventedä by a journalist years after the last boomer was born. as David Wolfe says in his latest book "Ageless Marketing" - "Calvin was right ö they donât name a generation until its members are real old ö at least 20."

First of all, I do not believe that generations are defined by birthrates. The "traditional" Baby Boom definition of 1946-1964 has been and still is the most popular, but let us look at this more closely:

If you were born in 1946, your childhood was in the sanitized white bread 50s, when any thought of rebellion was swept under the rug as fast as you can say "Howdy Doody". You graduated high school in the mid sixties, when the first signs of the counterculture were taking shape...and in most parts of the country were not even a thought. Racism and segregation were still rampant, and would continue throughout your college career. When you graduated college in '68, the country was in flux, rage of Vietnam was spreading, and the rest is history.

If you were born in the last Boom cohort of 1964, your childhood was shaped by the "free to be you and me" seventies. While you may have went to segregated schools early in grade school, the main part of the Civil Rights Movement was over by the time you were old enough to understand. Vietnam, including the fall of Saigon, was over by the time you reached puberty, and you graduated high school in 1982, the year of Fast Times at Ridgemont High. You did not graduate college until 1986, which was the height of Yuppiemania...not Hippiemania like the "leaders" of your generation. Meanwhile, you still have not reached 40 yet, while the '46 babies are staring at 60.

I think that the Boom generation should be split up into several pieces. I like the Generation "Jones" idea of people born from the mid-late 50s through the early-mid 60s...too old to be pure Boomers, but too young to be "Xers".

Now, while I agree to some extent that generations may be taken a bit too seriously, I think that there is some merit in this. One must agree that a young 20-something in 2003 is totally different in terms of upbringing, "coming of age", etc. from a young 20-something in 1990. Methods of teaching, supervising, etc. that worked with previous cohorts are no longer valid. Young people have much higher expectations of themselves, as well as you, than just a few years ago. While Xers of the past were and still are mistrustful of institutions, Yers today are more trustful, and have an optimistic view of the future. This may sound like something I picked up from a book, but it's true. I personally see totally different outlooks on life from people older than me than those younger.

That said, I think that 1977/1978 is a good boundary for Generations "X" and "Y". There is obviously a gray area, but I think that this is a good dividing point. Note that the "traditional" definition ends Gen "X" in 1976, so this actually isn't too far off the mark.

I was discusing this topic the other night with some friends and decided to seek out information on this topic. So here I ended up in my web search. I was born in 1971 and didn't think I was a gen Xer, and I know I am not a baby boomer. Now, my friend I was talking with was born in 1965. She is not in the baby boomer generation either and definately not a gen Xer. She feels that she is in the flower child generation. I have not seen any mention of the geration in the previous messages here. Does any one know if this is even a generation?. I believe this is the generation born to those that experienced the "60's". I sometimes feel lost between generations. And what of yuippies and prepppies or are those just considered fads? Please shed some light on this for me. Thank you.

i also think the birth rate definition of boomers is ridiculous, and as a result the 46-64 defintion of boomers is wrong. i was born in 59 and no way am i a boomer or an xer. i very much relate to being a member of generation jones. ive never heard of this generation between the boomers and xers called the flower child generation but i have heard many times it referred to as generation jones.
the meaning of generation has not changed over time--there have been for centuries both meanings for it: a familial generation--you, your mother , and your grandmother are in three different familial generations; and cultural/historical generation--the beat generation, the lost generation, generation x, etc.--you are part of one of these cultural generations if you were born during certain period of years, you then grow up with certain cultural, political, economic experiences that give you similar attitudes, values as others born during the same years.
landon jones only coined the term boomer, the term baby boom generation had already been out there, so his role is relatively minor.

A little Off topic, I just want to wish everyone, all generations, a merry Christmas and happy 2004. I've grown to like this room and I hope we can all see eye to eye, so we can resolve this generational crisis once and for all. :) Be safe and sane these up coming holiday weeks. I will be in New Jersey til Jan. 5. Look forward to the posting wars when I return...j/k. Mark...once again, you're the man!

kÜⁿgfÜ_fªñ

Helen's Dec. 13 post deserves serious attention in light of what psychologist Daniel Levinson said in his book The Seasons of a Man's Life about what makes a generation. His research indicated that in terms of a person's ability to identify with and relate to others as generational peers, a generation consists of people who are within 6 or 7 years of oneâs age; thus from a subjective perspective, the age span of a generation is 12 to 14 years.

Applying Levinson's thinking to the so-called boomer generation that spans 18 years, the oldest and youngest boomers fall into two separate generations. By Levinson's reasoning, babies born between 1946 (the year the first boomer was born) and 1952 had one foot in the so-called Silent Generation and the other in the Boomer Generation. Babies born between 1958 and 1964 (the year the last boomer was born) had one foot in the Boomer Generation and the other foot in the Generation X generation. Only people born between 1952 and 1958, numbering around 25 million ö not 78 million ö and accounting for only a third of boomers, had both feet in the Boomer Generation.

So, when people talk about marketing to "the aging boomer market," they are talking about an illusionary market. We ought not to forget that boomer is a marketing term borrowed by marketers from Landon Jones' 1981 book, Great Expectations: America and the Baby Boom. Thus, boomers were not named as such until the oldest were 35 and the youngest were 17. So, it's not surprising that many boomers don't think of themselves as boomers, and even resent being called such. And for sure, few boomers born in the 1960s feel they belong to the same generation as boomers born in the 1940s.

Levinson defined generation from the individual's perspective, not a marketer's. When you apply that definition to the 18-year cohort called boomers a much different picture emerges of the cohort effects - historical experiences that influence people growing up together - shared by people born between 1946 and 1964. Leading edge boomers (b. 1946 - 1952) have a very different historical foundation for their values and views on life than trailing edge boomers (b. 1968 - 1964). Leading edge boomers have a clear memory of the JFK assassination, but trailing edge boomers don't. The youngest were not even born yet. By the time trailing edge boomers reached middle school, leading edge boomers had shaved off their beards, cut their hair, started wearing bras again and put away or thrown away their folk art jewelry to take their place in the establishment they formerly scorned.
Thanks Helen, for highlighting the definition problem of the word "generation."

I was born on October 31, 1978. Many of you on here want to label me as Generation Y. But to be perfectly honest with you, I feel much more a part of Generation X than Generation Y. My first memories of music were those of '80s music. I received my first 7-inch vinyl single in in 1983. I remembered watching the Challenger explode on TV. I remembered having an Atari 2600. I also remembered "telling turtle" on an ancient Apple IIe computer, and my teachers in elementary school telling me that computers would become a big part of my life in the future. I turned 13 just as grunge started to become popular. I remember how the AIDS epidemic scared me. I was a fan of Beavis & Butt-Head. I remembered watching O.J. Simpson's low-speed chase through the streets of Los Angeles. I remember the Oklahoma City bombing. I graduated from high school in 1997.

This is how I'd divide up the generations:

Silent Generation: 1929-1945
Baby Boomer: 1946-1964
Generation X: 1965-1981
Millennial: 1982-2000

As you can see, the above generations fit into either 17- or 19-year spans. Another reason I will advocate adding 1978, 1979, 1980 and 1981 to the Generation X list is because everyone I've talked with in that age range seems to feel as though popular culture here in the new millennium has abandoned them. Everyone I've talked within that age range prefers '90s popular culture, and even '80s popular culture, over popular culture in the new millennium. Also, I can detect a major divide in the mentality of those born in 1981 and those born in 1982. For these reasons, I advocate making Generation X a 17-year window encompassing those born between 1965 and 1981.

- Generation Xer born in 1978

I was born in December of 1963 and completely consider myself a Gen-X, although I suppose most posters would say I'm a Gen-Jones, whatever. Many of the events that stick in the minds of Boomers and define them as a generation mean nothing to me. I remember when John Lennon got shot, I was in high school French class and my teacher was broken up about it. The response of myself and classmates? Who's John Lennon? I think that incident speaks volumes. I was in utero when Kennedy got capped, I did not make the disco scene because I was too young, and I didn't get to enjoy "free-love." I barely remember the 1960's. Besides, it seems improbable that I could be from the same generation as my boomer parents.

Elle, you are definitely NOT a boomer. Whether you are in Gen-"X" or Jones is still questionable. I think you are in "Jones" simply because your core teen years were in the late 70s to around 1980, which is a big difference from the 80s.

DBR96, you may feel like you're "X", but I think it has more to do than seeing the Challenger or having a vinyl single in 83. First of all, you're referring to the "turtle" on Apple IIe (which I fondly remember) from your elementary days. However, ask someone just a few years older, and they would probably talk about days when there were ***NO*** computers...at least computers in school. At least in terms of the time I was in school, computers were always there. The Internet too, marks a rather sharp divide, since it became popular while we were still in high school (late 95/early 96), while older cohorts did not have that experience until later on.

But other than technology, I think that the manner in which you were raised was important. A lot of people my age were shuttled back and forth to soccer practice, music lessons, etc. as kids...typical Gen-Y childhood, while their older siblings were just slacking off, doing nothing. There seemed to be a change in the ways of parenting after a certain juncture, and it seemed to affect my cohorts quite a bit, at least compared to those who are a few years older. Of course, there are also people my age who also fit the typical "X" description when they were younger, but I think that especially if there was an older sibling involved, the younger kid was more overly supervised and parented.

By the way, I think that the biggest divider between Generations "X" and "Y" is the Cold War. If you feared WWIII as a kid, you're almost certainly in "X". If not, you're in "Y".

OK Here's how I learned about it.
I sincerely feel that this is the correct formula.
My Explanation of this arguement will follow.

GI Generation ----- 1901-1924
Silent Generation - 1925-1945
Baby Boomer ------- 1946-1964
Generation X ------ 1965-1977
Generation Y ------ 1978-1994
Millenial --------- 1995- ???

GI Generation

You had to be 21 to get drafted into the world wars. Therefore, the last GI person is 1924.
1924 + 21 = 1945 The end of WW II.

GI = General Infantry = Soldier.

Silent Generation.

As part of a government operation, they were told not to speak !!

Seriously, it's because the GI generation set the standards for the entire world. The generation that followed was completely in awe. There was very little to top the generation that saved the world. The option chosen was to stay silent.

Baby Boomers

Births hit an extreme low during the great depression. After WW II was over, everybody decided it was a great time to start a family. Thus the next 18 years was an explosion in children born. The party ended when the 1st Baby Boomer had to goto college. Coincidence ?? You be the judge.

Generation X

This is supposed to be generation Thirteen. However, Douglas Copeland, a famous author, decided that it is called Generation X. He also dictated the years of 1965-1977. The best guess is that 1965 was the 1st year of less than 4 million births. Also, 1977 is kinda the turning point in births. A more sinister reason is that he wanted to piss off early Gen Y people by announcing that the opening of Star Wars is the cutoff. (lol).

Generation Y

Echo Boom, Mini Boomers, Baby Boomer Kids, you name it. This time period is when Baby Boomers had lots of children. 1994 is about the time that births peaked for this period. Sound familiar ??

Millenial

Why ?? It's for the new Millenium!! A single Millenium is 1000 years. We're now in the 2nd Millenia (3 if you're counting twice!!). How long will this generation last ?? Who knows! However, I'll bet that it'll be 20 years, or when births fall off a cliff. There should be fewer children in the future, now that Sex and the City is History.

It'll be a fun future! I'll have to testify before congress on why I did this web posting. Hopefully, they've developed a sense of humor.

If you're interested in history or the future, I'd suggest sending me an E-Mail today. This offer is especially good for cute and savvy women.

Doug Kahn

Generation X

1971 - Aries.

Silent Generation 1925-1941
Baby Boomers 1942-1953
Generation Jones 1954-1965
Generation X 1966-1980

There is clearly a generation between the Boomers and Xers.

Robbie. 1965 non Xer.

It seems to me that technology has made pop culture become increasingly decentralized. Because of that, I think it will get harder and harder to classify a "generation" by their experiences and what they remember and like. Granted world events will remain similar, but music and other media might not. I tend have a problem with the Generation X classification even. There was no real big events that mold that age group together that I can think of. I think "generation" is a flexible term and means parents and their children, etc, regardless of the year either was born.

I think the age of your parents can determine as much as your age in relation to childhood memories and likes and therefore, what generation you relate to the most. I was born in early '81, but I'm the youngest of four children and my parents were born in '42 and '47. So I have boomer (and war baby) parents and grew up on their music and their likes, and also on a lot of 80s music due to my siblings. My year of birth kind of puts me between X and Y. I think people my age will end up being a whole lot closer to Gen X than Y as the years go on. Computers really did not come into my life in a big way until my High School years, where as most of the Gen Y group will have grown up with them completely. That changes a lot of things.

Boomer and Generation X clashes ahead -

As a Generation X member born Jan. 1963 I consider myself NOT part of the Baby Boom generation - which really is classified between 1940-1959 and is a large group which was fed "youth" media images while raised in a climate of fear during the early days of the Cold War.

Those of us born into Generation X - 1960-1980 - were those whom grew up in the shadows of the dominated culture of cynical boomers who had defined youth culture in the late 1960s, and 1970s. My childhood is the 1960s were bare memories... I do not remember where I was when JFK was murdered; I was a year old when the Beatles landed in America; and I was six when man landed on the moon. Does this make me a baby boomer?

Furthermore, I resent baby boomers constantly revising their generation's span into the 1960s - as if in full denial of their getting older. This generation - the baby boomers - had taken the best jobs, apartments, houses, etc., so much so, that most of us true Gen Xers, who were 20 something in the 1980s - couldn't find anything for ourselves! Now, we see boomers claiming that those born in '63-'64 are part of their group! Sure, like I was screaming for the "White Album" when I was six years old! Come on!

Times are changing, you boomers, and it is time that you realize that your generation is going to see white hair, and nursing homes in the near future and you'd better just give up the Botox, plastic surgery, and turtle necks to cover up the signs of aging. It's okay... We ALL GROW OLDER! And your generation is no different!

But, what do we see. Barbra Walters STILL ON TV. Larry King STILL ON TV. Diane Keaton acting like a 20-year old! Give it up... Time moves on and the 1960s are over!!!!

Generation X has a plate full of unresolved issues to deal with that the boomers, their parents and the WWII generation either created, or made far worse by ignoring them. We, those born after 1960, have a huge responsibility to the future of this planet and we INTEND to make things RIGHT by not focussing ALL our time to excess wealth building, and looking good because we think 30 years old is too old! Give it a break!

Generation X - those born in the 1960s and 1970s have much work to do and we could care less about a generation that rejected the "establishment" only to become the establishment who thinks old age will not come to them whatsoever.

Believe me... only a few years from now, you will not be able to avoid being 60+ years old and I am sure, by then, we all will be reading that the baby boomer generation is from 1946 to 1976 - to make the boomers feel better about themselves!

On Generation X... there's more...

The Baby Boom generation began just as the Second World War was in full flux. Remember, the war was at war in 1939 to 1945, but America did not enter the war until 1942. Many of the front-line boomers who defined the mid-1960s were baby boomers born 1940 and afterwards... Joplin, Hendrix, Lennon, etc., and their movement - the "counterculture" movement was pre-dated in the mid-1950s by the so-called "Matures" or "Silent Generation" who are now our senior citizens.

1940 sees the start of the Baby Boom births - remember, babies were still being born "during" the Second War World - ok? It's not like people stopped having sex because the guns were flaring. What better time to make love than during a war?

Births started to pick up by 1943 and peaked right into the 1950s - when the bulk of the Baby Boom took place. This is the first TV generation raised on black and white pictures, variety shows, and cowboy films. The boom created a new mass media culture developed by marketers selling everything parents could buy for their growing families and continued through the 1950s until the election of John F. Kennedy as president in 1960, when births started to tail off.

Generation X - those born 1960 to 1980 (get it right please everyone) - is a very special generation that grew up as massive social changes began to take place at the same time technological change was taking place worldwide. Cultures travelled more easily throughout the world and televison and it's images developed a sophistication borne out of the clashes of the late 1960s.

As a 1963 birth, my conscious childhood took place in the 1970s - which defines most of Generation X - a time of serious television, social experiments, and childhood responsibilities. The 1970s was termed the "Golden Age of Rock" when music defined Generation X. The rebellion of the 1960s led to massive social change, and clash, while at the same time Baby Boomers who rejected the "establishment" as Hippies returned to short hair, fat ties, and colorful clothing by the mid-1970s. This came after the chaos of "free love" and dropping out of society failed with the beginning of the Watergate scandal (1972-74) and the end of the Vietnam War (1975).

I was 12 years old in 1975 and can remember the swing in attitudes throughout America. Does my age remember the radical change in television programming when the Brady Bunch and Partridge Family were cancelled in '74? This led to new shows reflected the Baby Boomers in 1975 - "Charlies' Angels" and "Starskey & Hutch", "The Night Stalker" "Love, American Style", "Happy Days", Saturday Night Live", etc. All these shows reflected the impact of mass marketing to youth in that time - the Baby Boomers.

Generation X came of age in the late 1970s and early 1980s - a critical time in America, with the turning against youth culture and the election of Reagan-Bush in 1980. I was 17-years old in 1980 and can remember the start of "Nightline" with the countdown of how many days Americans had been held hostage in Iran... Anyone remember Carter's presidency end at that time?

Generation X has been right behind the Baby Boom generation - which is why those born 1960-61-62-63-64-65-66 - are the front end of the Generation X population. Each year I read about some baby boomer claiming ANOTHER year of the 1960s as a "baby boom" year when the opposite is true. This is surely due to the fact most of the Baby Boom generation avoids any reference to AGE WHATSOEVER.

I consider that a denial of the natural laws of the universe. I find it disgusting to witness some Baby Boomer I see on television, wide-eyed, plastic surgeried to the hilt, jumping around like a 25-year old and claiming that reversing the aging process is more than possible. Give me a break! Never believe your own PR...

America is getting older - and Boomers are leading the pack. The fact that many boomers are avoiding this is a sign that sad times are ahead and shows how many boomers swallowed the "youth culture" media hype leaving not a drop behind!

The leading edge of Generation X turned 40 three years ago - all the children born in the 1960s will turn 40 by the year 2010. After 2010, the Gen Xers born in the 1970s will begin to turn 40 years old - which is still young! By 2020, those born in the 1980s will begin to turn 40. In Scriptural terms - the age of 40 is the age of full maturity - something that is missing in our "Baby Boomer" culture. The key word is "BABY".

Times are changing, and this world has REAL UNRESOLVED and EARTH-SHAKING problems to find solutions to - and faster than we know. I suggest all Generation Xers begin to plan on how problems can be solved using the least amount of BS that has been fed to the Baby Boom generation that had to "duck and cover" during the Cold War. The effect on the Boomers has been to give them a sense of "fear and helplessness" which they rebelled against in the late 1960s and early 1970s and which, for some Boomers, has led to a denial of living a life where we all know that aging is a part of human life and that it's OKAY to get older. That way, we won't have 77 million drugged up Baby Boomers wearing hip-hugging jeans, with high cheekbones, pumped up from loads of Viagra and Botox-infected faces in 2010-2030!

Generation X - UNITE!

GENERATION X - PART III

The clash of generations is already among us as much of the Baby Boom generation continues to avoid the facts of life - AGING. Not ALL Boomers are obsessed with "looking" young - and Bless those Boomers who are honest enough to see those of their generation try to keep both ends of the candle burning at the same time; while knowing it is all an illusion!

I believe the year 2000 and our entry into the 21st century, combined with the events of September 11, 2001, caused a "ripple in time"; i.e., that Baby Boomers who for so long had to rebel against the establishment - came to the age 50 like the HAL 9000 computer - and couldn't jive hitting the half-century mark with "don't trust anyone over 30" - the mantra of the anti-establishment Baby Boomers.

Not all Boomers are in denial, but if one watched television these days - especially the news media - one will witness boomers all over spouting new looks as if they ARE the youth of today! What a shame to see Judy Woodruff of CNN in denial. Or Doctor Laura wearing those "hip" fashions. Meanwhile, boomer marketeers have Gen X mothers running around in commercial dusting the house to DEVO's tune of "Whip it"! Can you imagine anything more sick than this sight?!

Boomers have had no clue what to think of Generation X since most Baby Boomers rejected many a Gen Xer from apprenticeship positions in the 1980s, all the while taking nearly every available job pre-Internet.

Then, just when Gen X was getting going in the mid-1990s as dot.com technologies were taking off - in comes billions of dollars, and Boomers wearing our fashions (you know, knit sweaters over white T-shirts) and acting like our friends in leading the charge into the new century while ripping off billions from new companies and being ripped off by other Boomers - all in an attempt to be a millionaire.

Look at the result - millions of jobs lost and many Gen Xers struggling to make it for the FIRST TIME while news media shows more and more Boomers being hauled away for corporate theft after trillions go missing!

It is very, very hard for man Gen Xers to feel compassion for Baby Boomers - because all our lives we've witnessed this generation whine and cry about this and that - while we have had to wait for all the "peace and justice" promised by these very Boomers since the late 1960s! What do we see now in 2004?

A time is coming when most Baby Boomers will be reviled for the wasted time while the world in this new century continues to suffer from the ills of the 20th century - poverty, environmental distruction, terrorism, secret deals, massive economic theft, waste, etc., all the while having to watch many Baby Boomers waste their time (and our time & energy) trying to re-capture youth.

Why do Baby Boomers want to be so young when they appear to hate the young alive today? Why can't these Baby Boomers leave 20,30, and 40-year olds to enjoy THEIR TIME? I find it very strange to witness an entire "hip" generation who take jobs away from younger age groups. Did you know that over 25 million boomers have re-entered the job market? Yet, for all the talk about "youth" there sure isn't the concern for the YOUNG OF TODAY, is there?

I suggest Baby Boomers remember when they WERE 20,30, or even 40 and LET the current youth of these times BE YOUNG. Like Gen X used to say back in the day - "Act your age... not your shoe size".

Gen X - Part IV

Just so it does not appear I hate Baby Boomers, I've added this section... For one, some in the Boomer generation have had a positive impact on society by highlighting the ills of 1960s-1970s Establishment Society... the racism, the evironmental destruction, poverty, media lies, violence, massive economic theft, crime...

However, the Baby Boom Generation has lost its way... Look at the FEAR being engendered by this generation! FEAR, FEAR, FEAR! Everywhere you turn! What a mess! On top of this, I believe that most - not all - but most of the Boomer generation have become what they feared most - SELL-OUTS! The news media matras, the lies, the refusal to even question THEIR OWN ESTABLISHMENT WHEN THEY VIOLENTLY QUESTIONED THE 1960S & 1970S ESTABLISHMENT TO THE HILT!

The rebellion among youth of today is a sign of more to come, I believe. The hypocrisy of failing to question one's own establishment with a history of questioning previous ones is a SIN sure to bite the Boomer generation right on the ass - and more than once!

Generation X has issue with Boomers that must be addressed and the longer it takes to do so the worse it is going to be for Boomers in the long run. For it is Gen X that will have to be the ones protecting the Boomer generation in their senior years... Think about it... In the future, when Boomers are the elderly population - tens of millions strong - they will have to be protected against crimes against the elderly; which will grow due to the huge influx of aging Boomers in America.

Crimes against the elderly is a serious matter and Boomers have to be prepared to have home health aids to assist them in daily life. I know many Boomers who want to avoid nursing homes at all costs, and I don't blame them. But, since the problems of the world have to be tackled and millions of new workers trained - many Gen Xers, delayed for so long by millions of Boomers - will have our plates much too full to be there 100 percent for them. What to do?

Well, with the massive media perception that Boomers are spreading about their "youth" - it is going to be very difficult to make the switch from youth to suddenly "old age". The Boomer illusion of youth now perpetuated throughout media - by Boomers themselves - does not help this generation in the near future. Meaning: pretending one is 40 when one is closer to 65-70 is ok in one's mind - BUT NOT IN THE REAL WORLD.

Generation X had to wait to raise families - why? Because many of the pension-backed jobs were taken by Boomers. Now, out school systems are a mess, medical coverage expensive, and companies' pension systems are in the red due to Boomers gambling their retirements on the likes of ENRON, WORLDCOM, BONDS, AND MUTUAL FUNDS that were really pyramid-schemes. Many companies have to pay out these pensions soon, despite being in the red and so have decided to move operations to China and India so they can keep wages there low, while continuing to operate solely to pay out pensions on monies lost in stock market scams to make themselves rich!

What a mess, huh?

In steps Generation X. We look at the books and puke! We step into the room and see the mess and told, "Huh, can you guys clean up?".

So, one can see why Gen Xers and Gen Y would be rather PISSED OFF IN A REAL SERIOUS WAY since no one asked us what we thought about the mess being made in the first place?

What would help, you ask? A public - meaning a PUBLIC - soul-searching by real, and bone-breaking honest Baby Boomers questioning their OWN GENERATION on all of this. A public washing of laundry to bring out into the open the hidden and nasty lies and deeds perpetrated and laid bare for Generation X and Y to see - so we can ll at least have some semblance of knowledge that the respect due to us is there so by the time Baby Boomers enter the realm of senior citizen we won't say TO HELL WITH ALL OF YOU - and help you manage and maintain a healthy life of the elderly without leaving you all to wither away while we pay REAL ATTENTION TO THE PROBLEMS OF THE REAL WORLD...

How's that for honesty?

A Gen X rant!

Gen X years?
Gen Y years?

What is the name of the next generation after Gen Y? Years?

Thanks

Some strange feeling seized me when I read your comment, Theodore.
Does Theodore's post look strange here?
No. So Theodore, what is the point in your comment?
There always has to be some point.
Nothing personal tho.
regards,
Anderson

Theodore, Do I know you?
Have you ever been to St Louis?
If yes, hit me up on ICQ: 136547585.
If not - sorry you just remind me of someone.
regards,
Chris

GEN X POST EXPLAINS ITSELF

To Chris, no, never been to St. Louis...

To Anderson: Well, what is the point? Read the rant; it explains itself. The Baby Boomer generation, which took the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s for itself and ACTUALLY believed it would never age is now trying to reverse the aging process and in the attempt, screw the generations following them! How's that for peace and love? You know what the point is man!

Theodore

Nope. 61-64 is not "boom". Those MAY be years where the birthrate was still "booming",but culturally speaking,with the way we define genrations in this nation,they ARE NOT boom.

I guess I have to admit to being classified as an X generationer. I was born on Easter in 1972, rudely interrupting my mother's easter dinner. I almost weighed as much as the ham at 9 lbs. 2 oz's, but that's not why I'm writing. The reason I am writing is to state that I will miss the Boomer generation; a generation filled with principles, ethics, genuiness, determination, loyalty, and most of all, hard work. The irony of it all, is that we will probably again profit from their retirement. As they age, they will be inundated with junk mail, advertisements and anyone else who is willing to try and drain their pocketbooks. I guess I'm just being protective and nastalgic since this group includes my parents. In the end, it should all balance since the X generation will have to support medicaid, medicare and any other social program being provided for a disproportionatly larger segment of the population. We all, with some of those past principles will hopefully make it, even with the ever-burgeoning half billion dollar deficit, and 7 trillion dollar national debt.

I would like to add a little of my own thoughts to the debate on generations. My father was born in 1951 and my mother in 1950. Both of my grandfathers were in the Army during WWII. They grew up with Howdy Doody and captain Kangaroo. They distinctly remember the day JFK was shot and came of age during "Beatlemania." They becamne part of the counterculture in the late sixties and early seventies. My sister was born in 1971. I would definently consider her a gen-xer. She grew up with Scooby Doo and Wonder Woman and played with Weebles. She came of age in the 80's with the advent of Cyndi Lauper and Madonna and the Eurythmics. To me, this is where the stereo type ends. I was born in 1982, so called generation Y. By that times my parents were in there early thirties settling in to adulthood. Due to the age difference between my sister and I, they often say they raised two "only children."
Growing up I have noticed distinct differences between children born in the early 80's depending on the age of the parent. A child born in 1982 to a parent who was aged 20-25 was raised differently than another child born in '82 to a parent in there early to mid 30's. Yes I can identify culturally with gen Y but preferentially I can identify with both gen xer's and boomers. Case in point, I grew up with my parents listening to the Beatles, while other friends my age grew up with there parents listening to the Bee Gees. My parents were never yuppies while many of my friends parents were. If anything, a generation is a state of mind, not a state of being.

Instersting point, Tim. I agree with you about the effects one's parents' age can have on cultural inclinations. My kids (still teenagers) are the children of unrehabilited boomers--they grew up on our music, our politics and world view, and cultural preferences. Most of their friends have much younger parents. Seems my boys are more closely aligned with the attitudes and values they assimilated from us than with those of some of their friends. In fact dare I say--my older son may be Boomer Redux. (A mother can only hope!)

Know thy self. We're trying hard with very little success. Take for instance this picture of a minute hand moving from minute one to minute two, pick what hour you desire. But tell me what is the point that the hand rest upon when it transitions from one to two. Is it 1.9999999..., or it is one of those impossible number like pie or phi. Or does time just seem to do the impossibble and just goes on without end. Everyone now are because of everyone that was. There is no line of demarcation for the past, present and future. Trying to find one is just mental amusements. Just have fun and enjoy.
Leave the baby boomer, X-gen and everyother label to the rule maker's aid in determining the decisions for the monopoly game they play.

Generation Xers Coming of Age

Four years into the new millenium, here we are: seeing millions of Baby Boomers re-entering the workforce at the same time that millions of jobs are "outsourced" by the same baby boomer corporate "leaders" to China and India. Does any of this make sense?

America is being failed by the very generation that swore it was "right" in the 1960s and 1970s. Now, we see boomers denying the aging process - as if they are "special" and age should not touch them. So, here we are - in the 21st century - and the Baby Boomers have much of the modern culture looking "backwards" not forward.

What do we see? Memories of the 1970s? "Retro" shows and boomers redoing the "disco age" while the world around us is in deep trouble. What happened to the environment? What happened to future?

I suggest Generation Xers and Generation Yers look FORWARD - because the 2000s and the 2010s and beyond are going to be very challenging decades and we have more to worry about than Baby Boomers trying to hide their age by denying wrinkles while pretending to be young again!

I guess I'm lucky that my parents are from the Silent Generation so I can be resentful of them rather than the Baby Boomers. I was born in 1972 so I'm clarily a Gen-Xer. I have a sibling born in 1977 and boy is she different than myself...let's call that generation Gen-Y (just kidding). I do believe that we Gen-Xers have a lot to be resentful for since we don't have the wonderful jobs with great benefits (you know, like health insurance for example). I'm sure the Boomer mid-life crisis fade will disappear and we'll be able to carve a nitch for ourselves.

I'm definitely a gen y.I was born 1978.My cousins 3 of them was born between 1965-1976 they're cynical and I'm optimistic about life.

There ya go Lyn...I posted a while ago...clearly there is a difference between people born in 1978 or so and those born just a couple of years earlier. I honestly think it's a bigger demarcation than between boomers and X-ers.

If you go online checkout the "Generation Y quiz" 29 questions to find out which generation you belong to.Just a suggesstion.

I can't find it Lyn (searched with Google)...do you have the URL?

Try Yahoo.

I believe that people are confusing era's with real generations. Personally I'd liked to call myself a "Bicentennial" 1965-85.But if you must ask I also consider myself 2\3 X and 1\3 Y (1976)since the general dates of Y start at either 76,77,or 82. Every generation goes through a number of changes and attitudes, which is even confirmed by this sites' link bar. Being 27 I have experienced New Wave,Punk,Grunge,Rap,Hip Hop,and even Neoswing! I resent having my entire life span being only represented by a life style that died when I was 15! As the class of 95 I also resent those who say that I'm not the same generation as my fellow 95rs who were born in 77. Yes at one stage in my life I was X, which I wasn't when I was a kid. But now I'm in the Y stage in my life- I no longer wear flannel, own a cell phone and remember when I couldn't wait to get my PS2 (Playstation2). I consider anybody between Britney Spears and Eminem, 22-31? , as my culture. An example of this was the kid in Terminator 2. He would now be called a Y but back then he was straight up X. Back then I didn't like anything goverment but now my dream job would be to work at Nasa. In closing I would like to thank this website for letting me venting out my point of view. Also I will admit that while you boomers weren't perfect you guys did some great things and yes, a lot of great music. Sincerly , Wayne Heft

I checked out the quiz, Lyn, and I guess I'm more "Y" than "X". But a lot of those "Y" characteristics are more "X" characteristics ("Do you want fries with that" does NOT by any stretch of the imagination portray the expectations of my generation).

Wayne, apparently being born in 76 you're on the other side of the divide, or at least the divide I am thinking of. Did you notice when you were in high school (or college) differences between your class and the younger classes in terms of attitude, stress levels, aspirations, culture references etc.?

Basicly no. What the cool people wore, did, watch, ect, was what everybody else tried to do. But that's the way it was growing up. When I was a kid no one thought that a 9 year old was of a different generation then one that was 7. Same way in high school. There were only Boomers and us kids. I only knew of GenX as a marketing campaign during the mid 90's. As for attitude and aspirations that was determined by how rich your family was. And no, I don't remember this deep rift between Boomers and my peers other than your typical teenage angst of growing up.
But as time goes on it seems that more and more people are finding ways to subdivide my life and experiences into oblivion. If I can't relate to somebody who attended the same classes as I then who? We certainly don't identify with the "real Xers", the "eighties" children who were Metal Heads and New Wavers. So that only leaves those only born a couple years before me as my generation. Does someone born just 4 months later relate more to someone who was born in the mid 90's than to me? Am I just a dirty old man because I think some 24 year old girl is hot? No because when it comes down to the individual it's all relative. I no more identify with someone who graduated in 85' than some who will graduate in 05.
And there must be some connections between me and the younger crowd. My two best friends in high school were 97's who I met in art class. We called ourselves the "slackers" by the way, just to mock some of the jerk teachers.
Believe it or not I understand why you want to distance yourself from the sterotype as much as possible. After a few years of hearing how bad people born from 65 to 81 were, I've reciently came across a number of reports and opinions that state that Gen Y is different from Millenials and is made up of those between in the years 1976 to 1981. That's why I call myself 1\3rd Y by the way. This also backs up the claim by those born from 65-72\74 that I wasn't a true X. I found myself relieved to think that I might still be considered young and even a good person by the media. But no, I'm no better or worse than anybody a few years younger or older than me just because of when I was born.
Finally Mark we might have been friends if we had attended the same school together. From your earlier post you seem like an intelligent and cool guy. As for my view on if there was any clear mark I would have to say it would be those who started high school after 90. The 80's fads were dead and Vanilla Ice and New Kids were already considered done by my class when we were freshman. Sincerly Wayne. PS: I took that test and my results were: PreBoomer-5 Boomer-3 Xr-8 Y-9 and ?-3( 3 of them had no relevence for me at all.) I'll post my answers and alternative answers tomorrow.

Mark if you don't mind me asking, what year were you born? and what does bling bling mean?

This is my results to the Y test. () denotes my own answers-- 1-Perfect mother:Donna Reed 2-Wanted to be when I grew up:Freethinking artist. 3-Music:B-D 4-Scariest movie moment:(Tent being attacked by Blair Witch) 5-Ideal American:Beavis 6-Retirement:Write novel 7-America's future:Stupid 8-American Dream:Lottery 9-College major:business 10-Good Meal:Drive up 11-Footwear: High tops 12-Learn to drive:(92 Olds) 13-The Woman:(Alicia Silverstone-another 76 I believe) 14- The Man: Cary Grant 15-Lost Idol: James Dean 16- Habit: Crack(eating) 17- Fashion needed to forget: Baggy Pants 18-Weekend: Mountain Biking 19- Remember: OJ 20- Life changing movie: (None) 21-LCNovel: Lord of the rings 22-Sports:I wanta be like Mike 23-Celeb not to be claim: Vanilla Ice(Tom Greene) 24-Computures are: My only link to the outside world 25-Father is who: wears the pants. 26- After college plans: Work hard 27-Annoying fad:Body Piercings 28-Gen's voice: Carson Daily 29-Biggest Fear: Things that suck
This just proves that I'm neither a teen or middle aged. WYN

Generation Y seems to be the Y should I care generation. I was born in 79'and I am definately an Xer. Here's a good question for the boomers? Did you guys ask WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH OUR YOUTH? Because, I cannot walk through the halls at my college without asking myself that question. I think all the radiation waves from microwaves, cell phones and television has seeped through their skulls. Or maybe it is just because they are jaded. They have seen it all. If it is not shocking, cutting edge or recent, they have never heard of it. Bombarded with Britney Spears naked and Boob flashing on prime time t.v. they have little exposure to anything alse. An 18 year old girl said to me the other day...Who is Jonh Lennon? WOW... I think what worries me about the Y Generation is that their ambivilence has had a serious effect on current teen culture....As a matter of fact it seems thay have no culture at all....One day when they will grow up, will they suddenly marinate themselves in culture to catch up?

Let me know what ya' think...

If Y's culture is lacking this badly then Z may really be the end of culture all together? Unless you consider Britney Spears culture?

Lyn: I was born in '78...and "bling bling" is money I think (although I personally never use that term)

Wayne: I admit that the boundaries are indeed "fuzzy"...but I think that there is a clear difference between people my age and those just a few years older. Look at those people on American Idol. The cutoff age is 24 at audition time. The show has only been on since 2002, so the oldest people on the show have been born in 1978 (mid 1977 if you want to be technical). But there's little difference between the attitudes, demeanor, etc. between the 24 year olds and the 17 year olds. Of course, you can argue that AI doesn't represent all of America, but that's just one of many examples that I can think of.

Melissa: Two things I want to say...if you were born in '79, then you were only one year old when Lennon was shot. So obviously Lennon when he was alive at least, did not play much of a role in your life. Second, I agree that pop culture today has little substance. The only thing is that most of the pop culture today is produced by people OUR age, which is rather disconcerting. Sometimes I cringe when I realize I was born in the same year as Justin Guarini and Ashton Kutcher. So it's not just them...it's us too!

In an attempt to answer the original thread I have spent a mind numbing week diving into over a hundred websites and pages. I believe that confusion exist because there is actually two general models, based on the number of divisions. The first breaks it into 2
(Gen X,GenY) while the second into 3 (GenX,GenY,and Millenials) Because of this my year has been "officially" reassigned 5 times into 3 different "generations".
- I agree that the 17-24 age demographic is different than the 25-32. However this is more due to age and experience than era. In my own life I have experienced a few more life changing events in the past 5 years which has made me a different person then I was at 22.
-From my studies both online and in the real world it seems to me that these "Gens" have a way of becoming lifestyles which are practiced by all ages. I've seen kids my age become hippies while my two younger cousins (20\22) are way more X then I could be. Even on this thread there are those in the 76-81 birthrange who clearly identify with X while others side with the millenials.
-Finally:I can only speak of my own experience and can't speak for others. Maybe our highschool of 620 was more integrated(especially elective classes)then others.I want to apologize for monopolizing this thread and to fans of Greene, I know he is a nice guy. Sincerly, WYN

Mark,Bush or Kerry ?

Final Posting: I've said pretty much all I can say. I still believe that a 27 year old born in Aug.76 can relate to a 27 born in Jan.77, or a 26 and 25 year old for that matter. And that goes for someone born in 75 for all those X'er websites who say 76'rs aren't cool or intellegent enough to understand them.
-Wayne

Actually that's (intelligent), so ok, maybe we're can't.

Sorry, it's (intelligent), so ok, maybe we can't.

mmm...probably leaning ever-so-slightly towards Bush at this point...but I'm too fickle with this.

mmm...probably leaning ever-so-slightly towards Bush at this point...but I'm too fickle with this.

I'm fickled as well.I wanted Howard Dean to win.Don't take this personal... I'm against the war in Iraq.You know when Bush won the election in 2000,I felt somewhat guilty for not voting.To everyone who is in the military(possibly you Mark),I hope didn't offend anybody.Forgive me."Love is the answer"(John Lennon's song "Mind Games")

I guess I have to vote for Kerry.

That's OK Lyn (I'm not in the military, btw), you're entitled to your opinion...that's what's so great about our generation...compared to previous generations, I think we're a lot more understanding of other people's opinions.

I was born in 1979. However I am not commited to

either X or Millennial. I have a lot more common

with World War II vets and Silent generation and

Baby Boomers. Yet I hate the X and the Millennial

generations. They suck, spoiled, stupid and weak.

My prediction is once the Baby Boomers pass away,

the country will fall, with a new superpower in

place, the European Union. The superpower game

will shift back to Europe and Colonialism will

return. Communism is still powerful with China

and Vietnam with the population to crush the USA.

The Cold war never ended and never will.

questions anybody?

I'm a Virgo Mark what's your sign ?

I'm an Aries Lyn...born in the spring :-)

Here's a short test that I kinda developed over time, which I think is a pretty good measure of whether you're Generation "X" or something after:

1) Did you ever fear WWIII as a child?

2) Do you listen to 80s stations to reminisce or as a learning experience?

and here's the biggie:

3) Did you use the internet before college/adulthood?

I think that will kinda resolve the whole situation.

Mark I'm an Aries Ascendant/Rising.If you read "Linda Goodman's Relationship Signs" you'll understand what I'm talking about.If you were born during daylight savings time you subtract an hour from your time of birth.All this time I thought was a Taurus Rising.My birthdate is 9/1/1978.As for the 3 questions 1)I didn't believe in WWIII,I believed in aliens,you know like the film "Independence Day".2)The 80's suck! cheesy music videos ever, thank God it's over.The 90's & now are better.Proud to be a 90's person.3)I started using the internet after high school in 1999.It's ashame though.I think the internet was made public in 1992? maybe you might know.

Mark I'm an Aries Ascendant/Rising.If you read "Linda Goodman's Relationship Signs" you'll understand what I'm talking about.If you were born during daylight savings time you subtract an hour from your time of birth.All this time I thought was a Taurus Rising.My birthdate is 9/1/1978.As for the 3 questions 1)I didn't believe in WWIII,I believed in aliens,you know like the film "Independence Day".2)The 80's suck! cheesy music videos ever, thank God it's over.The 90's & now are better.Proud to be a 90's person.3)I started using the internet after high school in 1999.It's ashame though.I think the internet was made public in 1992? maybe you might know.

Yeah...I'm not really into astrology so I'm not really sure what you're talking about.

The internet was actually made public in the late 80s early 90s, through the "original" servers like Compuserve and such. But it was essentially limited to BBSs and government data and stuff...no web whatsoever (the graphical World Wide Web didn't develop until 1993). I actually used the internet in 92, when I was a freshman in high school, but it was just to get weather data (I'm a meteorologist). The world wide web didn't really explode until Fall '95 when Windows 95 came out. Seemed that's when everyone all of a sudden started to use it.

Mark if not astrology,what about numerology?
9+1+1+9+7+8=35/8 birthpath.Adding your birthdate up.If your not into any of this,what are your interests/hobbies?

Well, unfortunately I don't have too many hobbies now (I'm in grad school)...however, I like generational theory, weather, traveling, and baseball...particularly the Yankees.

Mark I'm guessing your from Brooklyn.I am born and raise in Honolulu,Hawaii.Have you ever been to Honolulu ? I'm planning to retire in the midwest part of the mainland with my fiancee.Don't worry he's not the jealous type.He talks to other women too.We trust each other.He's from Tulsa,OK.Have you been to Europe,Asia,Africa? if so which countries?.I've read about you in numerology,Mark is a 7 name.You like to read and uncover life's mysteries.You also like the water or anywhere that's peaceful so you can meditate.Occupations for a 7 are: scientific pursuits(what a coincidence),religion,writing,technical work,and legal fields.

close...I'm from Long Island. I've never been to Hawaii...never even been outside the mainland of the US. Must be pretty cool to live in a place like that. I acutually know a couple of people who are from Honolulu (you may even know them since they are about the same age as us). I do like areas close to the ocean, although I like having mountains and other geographical features close by. So that's pretty good!

Maybe it would be better if you e-mail, since this is kinda off topic... :-)

I have some questions for anyone that would like to answer them :

Did America need the "Beats" to question the status quo?

Have the ideas of the "Beats" affected our lives, provided us freedoms or bettered our world?

e-mail me back any comments or answers to my questions! thanks

Baby boomers were born between 1946-1964 and Gen x
was boon betwwen 1965-1977, Gen y was 1978-1994.

Gen X - A Retrospective
Since the my first posting I have gone through a period of growing and of loss. While there have been things that I should have worded differently or not said at all, the core tenets of what I said still hold true. I'm sorry for getting too wrapped up in defending my opinion, however it becomes an emotional item for me when defending my claim to the memories and experiences of my life. This also holds true when it comes to being stereotyped. People are people no matter what age, race, national, or anything else one might be born into. Finally as an adult I know that my views and outlooks on life will continue to change and evolve as time goes by. What I say now will probably differ from what I believe in the future.
-The Life of a Bicentennial-
The main reason for writing this post is so show all those who are curious, what the experience of being a 27 year old born in 1976 is like.
(A real child of the 80's)
Being born in 76 is to be born between Drew Barrymore and Ashton Kutcher and to share your year with Reese Witherspoon and Alicia Silverstone. As we became kids we dreamed of G.J.Goes, Transformers, and later TMNT's on Christmas Eve. Meanwhile our parents had other things on their minds like something called an "arms race" and if they could afford to buy that Tandy computer down at Radio Shack. We heard Whitney Houston sing about how we were the future and how important it was to believe in us. Later we were amazed upon learning about something called Compuserve that actually let us play games with people from around the country!
(Growing pains)
The 80's had come to an end while in Jr.High. But they passed with hardly a notice. The girls were to busy thinking about their new found crushes on the "New Kids on the Block" while the guys thought that Bart Simpson was too rad for words. About this time we started to take notice of pop culture. Finally we arrived at high school. Things were changing big time. By the time Kirk Kobain commited suicide during my sophmore year Gangsta Rap had taken hold of the nation. Our clothes were baggy, our hats were either tipped to the back or the side, and we knew what neighborhoods not to wear our Orlando Magic Jackets. However we did have a hero and his name was Jordan, Michael Jordan. Although there were those who liked that big guy from Orlando. While in school we watched Lisa Ling on Channel 1 talk about the L.A Riots, Waco, and the Oklahoma City bombing. On TV and the movies we saw our highschools in "Clueless" and "Beavis and Butthead". Finally we graduated in 94 and 95.
(The prime years)
Another change took place when we went to college. We became fans of groups like No Doubt, Smashmouth, Bare Naked Ladies, and Sugar Ray. During Y2K we ruled. At age 23 history will forever record us as the princes' of a new technological age. However the party would not last as the economy broke before we